Talk:Death of Diana, Princess of Wales

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Contents 1 Rename 2 Comment 3 Yikes! Who wrote this? 4 Verifiability issues 5 Accident Photos? 6 Lack of guardrail 7 Fightin' Words 8 Worldexclusiv 9 Jeremy Vine 10 news 11 Richard Tomlinson 12 Downing St, the Queen, and Alastair Campbell 13 Armoured car? 14 Time to get to hospital 15 Rename Section?

[edit] Rename

Could this page be renamed "Death of Diana, Princess of Wales" for accuracy? --Dupes 19:06, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! --Dupes 20:37, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comment

Quote: 'In the midst of this "public outpouring of grief" many commentators and members of the public found themselves nonplussed by what they considered to be mawkish, sentimental and self-indulgent displays of insincere emotion.' Just wanted to say how true, (and also how well-written) this passage is. Nice work. JH1977 14:53, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yikes! Who wrote this?

The accident theory fits also badly that Dianas Mercedes was stolen three months before, its electronics was exchanged. It is mystic that driver Henri Paul had 1.7 parts promille per thousand, however he could without to varying the shoes to tie up itself. That a camera proves in the hotel.

Can someone who knows about this story either clean this up or delete it. Without varying the shoes to tie up itself! 24.202.13.239 00:33, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

The passage in question is obviously a poor translation, although I cannot say from which language. (German?) My guess is that it refers to the fact that the car that crashed was one that had been stolen and recovered, after thieves had removed a computerized component (or components) of the braking system. Conspiracy theorists use this to support their charge that the car had been tampered with so that assassins could take over its operation (or perhaps just the braking) by remote control. Images of Henri Paul captured by Ritz Hotel security before the fateful drive showed him looking composed. Perhaps one image captured him bending to tie his shoes and rising again without wobbling? (Or could "shoes" refer to brake shoes or tires?) If this is a reference to Paul's sober-appearing behavior, can a drunk man accomplish this? Can a man unfit to drive manage to appear sober on camera? Conspiracy theorists charge that it cannot be done--or that it was unlikely that Paul could have pulled off such a thing. With regard to the car, it should be noted that the particular Mercedes in which the four traveled was chosen at the last minute, because another Mercedes, the one in which the couple had traveled to the Ritz, was used as a decoy to lure away paparazzi. Both cars belonged to a leasing agency that was owned, like the Ritz itself, by Dodi Fayed's father. How could assassins have known he would transport Diana in the car that had been stolen? How could anyone know that this car would be the extra vehicle dispatched that night? And if the car needed repairs after it was recovered from the theft episode, doesn't that make it less likely that any tampering went undetected? Daphodyl 18:04, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

The expression "to tie up itself" is obviously a poor translation of the reflexive in many European languages such as French and Spanish, where "se faire" means both passive sense ("to be done to" or "to be done") as well as reflexive ("to do it for/to oneself"). The better translation in this case is almost certainly "It is [a mystery/mysterious] that driver Henri Paul had 1.7 parts per mille, however he could without to [wobbling/falling/moving/changing his balance] [tie up his shoes]. That [is proven by] a camera in the hotel." FT2 (Talk) 18:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

This is the most poorly-written paragraph I have come across in Wikipedia; it needs to be removed or re-worked to make sense. If I knew more about the subject I would have done it. Quote: 'The accident theory fits also badly that Dianas Mercedes was stolen three months before, its electronics was exchanged. It is mystic that driver Henri Paul had 1.7 parts promille per thousand, however he could without to varying the shoes to tie up itself. That a camera proves in the hotel.' EdX20 21:58, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

EdX20, this was complained about above. It seems that nobody wants to make the effort to fix it... I'm more concerned by the lack of references at this point tho. For instance, without them, how can we know if promille means percent or per thousand? — Donama 01:30, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

OK I have rewritten this paragraph and moved it to a more logical location. Also I have taken out the bits about blood alcohol levels and merged them with an earlier paragraph on the same. Curtains99 18:16, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

See above for better translation FT2 (Talk) 18:52, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Verifiability issues

References certainly are needed in this article. Problem is that many news companies didn't have very advanced websites back then. Here are some links to original news items in 1997:

• http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/31/newsid_2510000/2510615.stm (special archive)
• http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9708/30/diana.dead/ (CNN)

And links to news analysis well after the 1997 event:

• http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/20/48hours/main612794.shtml (2004 analysis by CBS)

Any more, people? — Donama 02:58, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Accident Photos?

Anyone have links to the photos mentioned in the Conspiracy Theories section: "Later in 2004, US TV network CBS showed pictures of the crash scene showing an intact rear side and an intact centre section of the Mercedes..."? Since they say they were relesed in 2004, shouldnt they be archived somewhere? Kamiawolf 06:01, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Try here from this page. Shame they're only photocopies.--Darrelljon 09:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lack of guardrail

I've always wondered why there wasn't a guardrail or other barrier running between the pillars and roadway in the tunnel. I suppose that with the low speed the road was designed for meant that a barrier wasn't necessary, but it seems like most engineers would think to put one in anyway when there are two dozen vertical concrete posts in a row. Is there a barrier the length of the tunnel today? —Mulad (talk) 03:49, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

No, there is not. I was there yesterday. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.159.22.14 (talk • contribs) 21:51, July 16, 2006 (UTC)

In the United States, it is customary for road engineers to add a metal guardrail running the length of all the pillars. This is to prevent a minor course deviation from turning into a catastophic head-on accident, where the vehicle runs in to an immovable object and comes to a dead stop in less than one second. Since head-on collisions can be deadly even at fairly low speeds, the argument that the road was not designed for high speed is spurious.76.168.252.157 07:28, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fightin' Words

'As the casualties lay seriously injured/dead in their wrecked car, the photographers continued to do their job of taking pictures of celebrities[citation needed].'

This is an extremely bold accusation to make, and I'd like to see some support to back it before it's simply laid-out. Without a citation, it seems rather slanderous. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.53.3.37 (talk • contribs) 20:20, July 4, 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if this is true or not, however I've changed the wording slightly to avoid the (in my opinion) PoV "continued to do their job" Yandman 13:18, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The report by Lord Stevens on the crash states on page 146 that three named photographers were still taking photographs in the situation described - though they seem to have stopped once the emergancy services arrived, and also called (or attempted to call) the emergency services apparently before they took the photographs. If no-one else does, I'll add the citation later, bit busy at the mo. MilleauRekiir 13:54, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Worldexclusiv

I search for the pictures from the italian magazin chi? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=395558&in_page_id=1766&ito=1490 --217.233.112.135 03:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

That picture was in the forums on ogrish.com. However that site has now merged into liveleak.com and subsequently a lot of its former media seems to no longer exist, unless someone can prove me wrong. --J. Smith 10:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jeremy Vine

Unable to find any verification regarding the BBC blackout on 16 May 2006 other than wikipedia mirrors and the web pages of Mohammed Al Fayed. Various sources - for example the scotsman (free registration required:http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=732762006)- report the interview without mentioning the blackout. I think if this is to stay in the article we should find some independent verification that it actually happened. --195.194.167.31 15:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

i've removed it, there is no mention of this blackout at all anywhere. it is basically bollocks.--87.127.28.247 18:56, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I have removed it too - I can not find any reference on the web - not even on Mohamed Al-Fayed's site. If anyone would like to re-add it, please cite sources, or list them here. --Leigh 17:31, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] news

French reopen Diana inquiry--Striver 05:33, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/August2006/210806accident.htm --Striver 00:43, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Richard Tomlinson

The Richard_Tomlinson directly contradicts this one:

Tomlinson was arrested by French Authorities in July 2006 as part of their inquiry into the death of Princess Diana, the police seized computer files and personal papers from his home in Cannes. - This article

The police seized computer files and personal papers from his home in Cannes. It was mistakenly reported by some quarters that this arrest was linked to the inquiries into the death of Princess Diana. - The Richard_Tomlinson article.

This article quotes a source, however the source makes no reference to the arrest, nor does it seem that any other sources in the bibliography. The Tomlinson article is also lacking in sources, in the absence of both I'd be minded to ammend this article to match the Tomlinson one until better sources can be found for both. Thoughts? --Edith The Hutt 13:20, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Downing St, the Queen, and Alastair Campbell

Hi. I was tidying up this article and I found the following. It sounds interesting, can anybody reference it? --Guinnog 04:47, 29 October 2006 (UTC) "At the urging of Downing Street, what was to be a recorded piece became a live broadcast, and the script was revised by Alastair Campbell to be more "human".[citation needed]" --Guinnog 04:47, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Having recently seen The Queen, I know that statement was made in the film. However, I do not know if it was a factual statement repeated by the movie, or if the director exercised creative liberty and put it in. Not really an answer to your question, I know, but I thought the information could be helpful.66.107.108.132 19:06, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Armoured car?

Many news reports refer to the mercedes as "armoured", but is there any evidence for this? I once heard (but cannot find to verify a source) that the vehicle was armoured, at the cost of various crumple zones. However, other sources suggest that it was not armoured at all? http://cgi.amazing.com/david/portfolio/auto-show/armor.html Slow Riot 21:40, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Time to get to hospital

The article asks why it took so long for Diana to get to hospital. Its standard practice in france to treat road accident victims at the scene rather than risk moving them in an ambulance. She was then only moved slowly because of her injuries.

This is taken from page 516 of the Operation Paget report. The report also states that the ambulance left the scene of the crash at 1:41am (p514) and arrived at the hospital at approximately 2.06am (p515)

Dr Martino was not involved in the decision to go to the Pitié-Salpêtrière Hospital. He explained his medical assessment that the transportation had to be very slow because of the level of the Princess of Wales’ blood pressure.

--J. Smith 12:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rename Section?

would it make sense to rename the heading 2004–2006 investigation to '2004–2006 investigation, the Operation Paget Report' or something to that effect? --J. Smith 12:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC)