User talk:Dcarlson

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Welcome!

Hello, Dcarlson, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! -- Longhair | Talk 03:01, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

1 Brackets
2 Your fractions
3 More on fractions
4 De Moivre's formula
5 Another formatting matter
6 Transcription request

[edit] Brackets

Hello. I saw you changing a lot of parentheses ( ) into brackets [ ] in formulas. I am just wondering why you are doing this? It does not really matter, but in my experience, brackets are not used that often in mathematics. By the way, I agree with your trying to convert fractions like 1/2 in \frac{1}{2}. If you are interested in style in mathematical articles, you might to drop by at Wikipedia:How to write a Wikipedia article on mathematics. Cheers, Jitse Niesen (talk) 21:03, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Hi Jitse. I am very impressed with your credentials as a mathematician (degrees, etc.)! From what I can gather, the hierarchy for nesting in mathematics should be {[()]}.

Here are some books that I have that use the nesting notation:

Tolstov, _Fourier Series_

Siebner, _Mathematische Formeln_

CRC Press, _CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics_

Barons, _Dictionary of Mathematical Terms_

R.A. Rosenbaum and G. Philip Johnson, _Calculus_

Antonella Cupillari, _The Nuts and Bolts of Proofs_

Mathematikwerk fu"r Gymnasien Oberstufe Analysis I_ by Schwann Verlag (with 20 coauthors including 7 with doctorates) uses this notation.

_Lehrbuch der Analysis_ by H. Heuser by Teubner books uses it.

Lethold _The Calculus_,

Flanders, Korfhage, Price, _Calculus

It is probably for making complex equations with nested terms easier to read, so that one can tell better which terms are grouped together.

Aha, I understand what you mean and now I vaguely remember that I've heard it before. It is not universally used, but looking at the list of books you give, it is not uncommon either. As I said, I don't care, so don't let me stop you. All the best, Jitse Niesen (talk) 23:57, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

I think that it's great that you are volunteering your time for Wikipedia. I greatly admire your mathematics ability.

Don

I don't think imposing the hierachy is such a great thing to do; you may be introducing ambiguity in some circumstances to a reader who is not completely familiar to the material -- parentheses, that is, "(" and ")" have (to my knowledge) a universal meaning as grouping delimeters. It is up to the TeX system and using \left and \right to make the grouping more clear. Dysprosia 10:46, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Your fractions

Hello. I don't think it's a good idea to change

$e^{2\pi inx/L}\,$

$e^\frac{2\pi inx}{L}$

since fractions in exponents in the latter format are hard on the eyes; the former is easier to read.

If you change

$\cos(2\pi nx/L)\,$

$\cos(\frac{2\pi nx}{L}),$

then I think you should finish the job by making the parentheses big enough to enslose the fraction, thus:

$\cos\left(\frac{2\pi nx}{L}\right).$

Michael Hardy 18:42, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

You are "fixing" fractions far too promiscuously. When a fraction is simple and is inline rather than displayed, especially when it's in parentheses, it looks much better as x/y than as $\frac{x}{y}$ . Michael Hardy 18:57, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your message. When I went to a special school for science and mathematics, they told us that "/" isn't a symbol in mathematics (I'm not sure this is 100% true, but then they were saying that it should never be used to denote a fraction). They would mark people down if they used "/." I have seen it some if it can't otherwise be typeset. I agree with you about using properly sized parentheses. It's interesting that another fellow (who is doing his postdoc in mathematics) actually liked my formatting the fractions with horizontal lines as I do, but then he didn't like the hierarchy of nested expressions as {[()]}. I kind of wish Wikipedia used a more modern typeface for the mathematics expressions, but then that in particular is just a matter of taste.

I feel that Wikipedia is one of the greatest projects on the internet and I find it really great that anyone would volunteer their time for it.

What school did you attend where they told you not to write "3/4", etc.? It is certainly not 100% true, nor even 1% true. Mathematicians -- myself included -- use both notations. Which is used depends on various things, one of which is whether the fraction is in-line or "displayed", and in particular, it's easier on the eyes to write "3/4" when it is in a superscript or subscript. Michael Hardy 21:41, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Hi Michael, It was a German High School for mathematics and science.

Since I'm being refered to above, I'd like to clarify that I absolutely agree with Michael that

$e^{2\pi inx/L}\,$

should be written like that, and not with a \frac. I probably had one particular example in mind when I said that I liked Dcarlson changing · / · into \frac. Interestingly, I believe that I was also told on high school (Dutch in my case) not to use · / ·, but I do not quite remember, and I don't think one got marks subtracted for it. Anyway, like Michael said, · / · is used in circumstances where \frac is ugly. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 23:52, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

$e^{2\pi inx/L}\,$ is easier to read in the browser than $e^\frac{2\pi inx}{L}$ . -- Don

[edit] More on fractions

In case you haven't seen my message above, please read it. Further to that message, your nonstandard convention is absolutely incorrect and misleading when applied to functions -- function notation is always written with parentheses, that is, "(" and ")". Please stick to standard notation. Dysprosia 08:54, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] De Moivre's formula

Just in case it was you who did formatting as anonimous user at De Moivre's formula, please note that you introduced a bug in the proof. If it was not you, I apologize.

And about the square brackets and formatting fractions. I agree with you that sometimes putting square brackets and fractions can make the text more readable. But I think you were a bit overzealous with that. And by the way, if in the future you wish to do mass changes to a large amount of articles, it is good to start by inquiring at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics. Sometimes there is some consensus or precedent of how to do things, and it never hurts to see how others think. Cheers and happy wiki-ing. Oleg Alexandrov 19:31, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, thank you.

[edit] Another formatting matter

Hello. Formatting via tables, such as you've been doing, seems much better than formatting via the "matrix" environment in TeX (\begin{matrix} ... \end{matrix}, etc.) in that not only are the "=" signs properly aligned, but also the things to the right of them are properly left-justified rather than centered.

However, the lines seem too close together. Example:

$\frac{1}{2}+\frac{1}{3}$

$\frac{1+1}{2+3}$

The above seems too cluttered. But look at this:

$\frac{1}{2}+\frac{1}{3}$

$\frac{1+1}{2+3}$

It's easier to read with some space between these lines.

Is there a way to do that in the table environments you've been writing? Michael Hardy 01:40, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

That's what I would like to know. I did find these pages:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Formula http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Table

but I'm not sure yet how to make that work. It would be nice to know.

Maybe I'll experiment around here:

Table format shown on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Table :

$\frac{1}{2}+\frac{1}{3}\,$	$=\frac{3}{6}+\frac{2}{6}\,$
	$=\frac{3 + 2}{6}$
	$=\frac{5}{6}$

With a little adjustment:

$\frac{1}{2}+\frac{1}{3}\,$	$=\frac{3}{6}+\frac{2}{6}\,$
	$=\frac{3 + 2}{6}$
	$=\frac{5}{6}$

Well, at least it works.

[edit] Transcription request

Hello. As you are a German I would need your help with a short text transcription.
I have been working on several articles about the discography of an Icelandic band called Þeyr (Theyr) and they had a song called “Rúdolf” which contained a fragment in German. It is an imitation of a Hitler’s speech. The voice is covered by the music and some echo, so even though I understand little German I wasn’t able to pick up nor even a loose word.

So, if you could help me, you should go to http://www.tonlist.com/ViewAlbum.aspx?AlbumID=3072 and click on the fifth track called “Rúdolf”. The mp3 sample can’t be downloaded (that’s why you have to click there). The German speech appears around 00:14 in the sample. It is not difficult I guess and it is short. If you help me I will be able to finish the article about their album As Above... where this song is featured and add more information on forthcoming articles. Please, I hope you could help me. Kind regards, Luis María Benítez 13:11, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

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User talk:Dcarlson

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Contents

[edit] Brackets

[edit] Your fractions

[edit] More on fractions

[edit] De Moivre's formula

[edit] Another formatting matter

[edit] Transcription request

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