Talk:12 Angry Men

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Contents 1 Ethnicity 2 Black and white 3 Grammar 4 Dead Zone 5 Other 'parodies'/ 'homages' 6 Minority Influence 7 budget 8 The Play 9 Symbolism 10 The Jury

[edit] Ethnicity

Wasn't the defendant Hispanic in both movies? Or was he Italian in the first? There was a bit of ethnic prejudice involved in the story, if I remember right.

Thanks, Cunctator, for inserting my 'comment' from the m.l. --Uncle Ed 15:44, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

On your first point, I think so too, although it was not actually stated in the dialogue, I believe we were intended to understand that he was Hispanic; making him Italian wouldn't have made sense since the watchmaker/Juror #11 was obviously Italian and the central point of the plot was the ethnic divide between the jury and the accused. Ellsworth 17:51, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thus I will note the article. Ellsworth

Years ago I watched the original black and white in Law class in highschool. Yesterday i revisted the movie and rented it. Then today I rented the remake. I notice that in the section abot the differences it states that one of the differences was that he defendant was hispanic. Since i originally thought he was hispanic in the black and white, and since they don't say what his is, how can this be a difference? I think that should be removed or changed somehow. Masterhatch 08:22, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

He was Hispanic in the first movie, possibly Puerto Rican. The rant by Begley seems to support that he's Puerto Rican by some of the comments being made being typical of some people's beliefs about Puerto Ricans. If he was Italian and the watchmaker was Italian I can't believe the rant would've lasted very long or been made at all. Wasn't there a shot of the kid at the beginning of the filem?--66.240.89.45 14:03, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I had actually thought he was African-American.

There is a shot of the kid at the beginning of the 1957 film. However, the film is black and white and it's not so easy to distinguish the ethnicity, though it's apparent the kid is not WASP. David.Monniaux 09:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Black and white

Why begin with a sentence calling it a "black-and-white" movie? If you're going to go that route, why not call it a "celluloid" movie, or a "talking" movie? Or am I missing something?

Celluloid was no longer in use as a photographic medium when this film was produced. And silent films were antiquated by the 1950s. It was "black and white" as opposed to the "color" we have all taken for granted for decades. --Rog

But black and white was still common in 1957, and there's nothing particularly relevant about its black-and-white-ness, eg, it isn't a film noir. --Cammoore 10:19, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

I came on to make the exact same point. I think calling it a "black-and-white movie" in the very first sentence is pointless; a movie is a movie after all. It's not something which effects the film in any way, so I've removed the reference for now.

[edit] Grammar

For Juror #11 is the phrase "proud of be an American" intetionally corect or should it be (a) "proud of being an American" or (b) "proud to be an American" 69.171.146.13

[edit] Dead Zone

It could also be added that the Dead Zone episode "Unreasonable Doubt" was a homage to the movie in the section where you list parodies and such.

[edit] Other 'parodies'/ 'homages'

It's obvious there have been many of these; as I type this I'm watching an episode of Veronica Mars that involves scenes similar to this film.

[edit] Minority Influence

I've been told the film inspired psychologists to begin research into minority influence; if this can be verified it'd be worth including.

[edit] budget

the budget estimates are inconsistent "340,000 estimated" and "350,000". I don't know which is correct.

  Remake

Should remake and other versions be it own sections

[edit] The Play

Was the movie not based on the play by Reginald Rose?

We read the play in class once a while back, I'm pretty sure it came first.--Agent Aquamarine 00:36, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Symbolism

I'm not sure if this is appropriate to mention or not, but did anyone see the symbolism in Henry Fonda being the only juror who was wearing a white jacket? I just enjoyed that for some odd reason. Very subtle, I love old movies :)

ChangeOfFate 02:51, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Jury

Did anyone notice that there was only men on the jury? There is 51% of women in the U.S. and 49% of men. Therefore there would of had to been some women on the jury. Why wasn't there?